Squeezing lemons Shabbat (part 2)


In addition to these olives and grapes, there is another category of fruit - mulberry and pomegranate. This is an intermediate option: the Torah are not prohibited to squeeze juice on Shabbat, but the sages forbade doing that. The Gemara says the reason for the ban: it was such a family, Beit Menas Mena bar-chem, they squeezed pomegranates. Nowadays pomegranate juice sold in stores along with many others. But at that time and in that place it was a novelty. Rav Nachman says: "Halacha [prohibiting squeezing pomegranates on Shabbat] is determined on the basis of the actions of this family - the house Menas, the son of Me-Nahema". Rabbi makes a fair point Rav Nachman: "Did Menas son Menachem - Thane?" Those. it is not a catechist, but only a producer of pomegranate juice! How can you say that Halachic on it? "And if you say, what is meant by certain unnamed Thane, who considered as the Menas son Menachem [ie considered the behavior of the family] - is it because of the fact that the Thane agree with Menas son Menachem, Halachic become like him? Did Menas son Menachem - the majority of the world "? Those. we are, in fact, is only about a single family, which was engaged in something that is not completely understood, "normal" people eat pomegranates, and this family has overcome them. So is the behavior of the family can affect Alah?

The Gemara gives an interesting comparison - Mishnah, which says about the law "Kila". One type of ban Kila - a "kiley Hakerem": in the vineyard can not sow other crops. They not only can not sow, but also to leave on their own grown plants also impossible. And the question arises: what status will have thorns that grew in the vineyard? Rabbi Eliezer believes that such spikes have the status of "kidesh": if they are left in the vineyard, the grapes will be prohibited. But sages do not agree with him. They believe that the ban applies only to Kila useful plants, and the thorns - this is not the plants, which are usually grown, it is the weeds, people are not interested in them. What explains the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer "And Rabbi Hanina said: the reason for [opinions] Rabbi Eliezer? The fact that in the field Arabia inoculated with thorns for the camels. " Here is an interesting example: nowhere in the world the thorns are not wanted - nor in America, nor in the EB-rope, or in Africa. The only place where people are interested in breeding them - this is the Arabian Peninsula, where thorns are food for the camels, the main means of transportation in that area. But the Gemara concludes that the cultivation of thorns in Arabia is not sufficient reason to deny the grapes growing mixed with thorns. Arabia - just a special place on the map, and not living there need to be considered with the practice, because with respect to the views of the world - it's nothing. Therefore Gemara continues and quotes Rabbi Heath-dy, who says that the beet juice is poured into the mikvah, makes its water unsuitable for dipping (though squeeze beet is not accepted), in the same way as making it unusable and wine (and vines, on the contrary, it decided to squeeze). However, liquid non-pressed product (such as water) mikvas not affect kosher-ness. And it turns out that the failure of extraction product is equal not to the liquid, which does not squeezed out, and to the fluid, which is usually obtained by extraction. The Gemara explains that although the squeeze beet is not made, but because of the fact that a particular person he decided to do it, for it has acquired the status of beet juice "drink". In other words, squeezing, man created his own microcosm. In this regard, neither he nor we should not be interested in that whole macrocosm does not do that. Said obviously corresponds to the opinion of Rashi.

And that will tell those authorities who do not agree with Rashi? To prevent spin, it requires a combination of two elements: the very fact otzhi-ma and the data that is customary to do in a particular place in a particular society. The decisive role in these matters is playing the same opinion on a particular subject. What in this case must be the scale? One family, as the Beit Menachem Menas bar, or the whole Arabian Peninsula? On this occasion, there is an interesting debate authorities.

Classification of fruits in terms of spin

Our theme is disassembled and the code "Shulchan Aruch" ( "Orach Chaim", Ch. 320). ), Where all the fruits are divided into three categories (we have already talked about them): olives and grapes - stricter all the Torah forbade squeeze them on Shabbat, mulberries and pomegranates - the prohibition of Zion ( "de rabanan"), and all other fruits you can squeeze on Shabbat. So when people complain that they observe Shabbat it is very difficult, it is a big mistake: it turns out, almost all the fruit you can squeeze! And it is actually today, olives and grapes nobody squeezes at home - it is an industrial way, but for ourselves we squeeze very different fruit! But then there Rameau, who writes that in the area where pressing the juice made from the fruit, to drink it to quench thirst or for enjoyment, these fruits are equated with mulberry and pomegranate. Those. Rameau all the "spoils": he believes that the ancient list of fruits (mulberry and pomegranate) that people are usually squeezed to produce juice, could become obsolete: information about the mulberry and pomegranate was relevant to only a certain period and for certain regions, so there where on weekdays usually squeeze other fruits, these fruits will not be able to squeeze the Sabbath, and the status of the ban - "de rabanan". The author of "Magen Abraham," writes that nebhodimo deep and explore this topic in detail, and here's why. He quotes the "Beit Yosef", where on the basis of the same Gemara made a somewhat different conclusion if it becomes known that in some place - no matter where - squeezing some fruit, its spin is automatically forbidden on the Sabbath following the example of the ban on spinning garnets, which can not squeeze out of the beit Menas. Those. "Beit Yosef" was stricter Rameau! Rameau believes that only a person if not "lucky" and he lives in such areas, where squeezed a lot of different fruits, he would not be pressing them on the Sabbath, but if "lucky", and its location data fruit is squeezed, he you can wring them on Shabbat, despite the fact that in other places they also squeezed. A "Beit Yosef" believes that it is necessary to have relevant information: to know where it is squeezed, because the ban on spinning on Shabbat applies to all push-ups fruits. Thus, if I know that somewhere in China squeeze a fruit, that fact prevents its spin on the Sabbath and I, and Jews all over the world.

Their opinion "Beit Yosef" writes in the context of the theme of squeezing lemons on Shabbat. In his time squeezing lemons was a rarity: lemons were not everywhere, but because where some of them still do the juice, they spin, in accordance with the opinion of "Beit Yo-Sef" became banned everywhere, by Rameau was and it was prohibited only in the area where people have decided to squeeze lemons. Initially, "Magen Abraham," I say this as a remark: "Why wrote Rameau" in place ... "? After all, this is heard that in other places it is possible. " However, he continues: "But it seems to me that Moshe - the truth, and his Torah - truth '4, and the words of the author" Beit Yosef "surprising. Why "Magen Avraham" surprised? It is engaged in clarifying the true output of our Gemara. "Beit Yosef" understood this conclusion is clear: the fact that in a particular region is usually squeeze a kind of fruit on weekdays, prohibits extraction of fruit on Shabbat worldwide. But "Magen Abraham," explains that the words of the Gemara on prohibition to leave on their own grown thorn in the vineyard - this is the personal opinion of Rabbi Eliezer, but the wise do not prohibit doing this, and the dispute between them is not at all whether the spines necessary crops in Arabia and is influenced by whether their usefulness to the inhabitants of the Arabian Peninsula, the reason to ban them everywhere: in the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer one region affects the whole world towards ustrozheniya, and according to the wise men of the ban will only apply to the Arabian Peninsula. "Magen Abraham," an analogy with pomegranates: if Menas bar Menachem family was "place" (The Gemara says that this is not the place, so this situation is not the same as the example of Arabia), then pressing the grenade on the Sabbath would be prohibited: by Rabbi Eliezer - all over the world, but by wise men - only in that place.

The "Magen Abraham," referring to a comment Tosafot referring to another place in the Talmud, offers an interesting compromise two opinions, arguing that it is not the place itself, determines the rate, and the presence of logic in people's behavior. He explains his position on a specific example. Can I squeeze pear? According to the Gemara - it is possible, they are not included in the list: it is not the olives and grapes, not mulberry and pomegranate. But "Magen Avraham" says that it is impossible to squeeze them, and nowhere else. Why? Because, it turns out, of his time in Germany pears accepted squeeze the juice. It was in Germany, while in other countries are not squeezed pear. So why is prohibited pressing pear outside of Germany? If all countries had such an abundance of pears, as in Germany, and, nevertheless, one would not have done the juice, it would mean that the custom of Germany on this issue can not be regarded as a general rule - it is something separate, exclusive and, therefore, does not bind other. However, the fact that other countries are not squeezed out, is under a very clear justification - there simply is no such quantity of pears to be able to engage in the production of pear juice, and this explains the lack of habit to squeeze the juice from the pears in these countries. Therefore, the custom of Germany obliges all countries. It turns out that "Magen Avraham" a little goes towards the "Beit Yosef": if there is an obvious reason why we have this habit of not, it turns out that a foreign custom and for us is the norm (commits), and if there is no obvious reason, it turns out that the custom - is unique and exists only for those who stick with it, and it does not oblige us. By the way, an interesting question. Suppose I live in Germany and want to squeeze pears on the Sabbath, and I remember that in Russia squeezed pear: perhaps the Germans are wrong, and the rights of Russian and generally squeeze pear - stupid, crazy custom? It remains questionable.

Lemon juice: drink or food supplement?

Finally, we come close to a lemon. They engaged in "Beit Yosef", which refers to "Ma gene Abraham" (Chapter 320). "It seems to me that not only mulberry and pomegranate, but any fruit, which are usually squeeze for juice, it is impossible to squeeze the Sabbath" ( ie do not mean that it is forbidden to squeeze only mulberries and pomegranates - is forbidden on Shabbat squeeze all the fruits, which are usually squeeze the juice). "Beit Yosef" refers to Rocha, who writes about is squeezing lemons, and thus we see that in times of Rocha, in the XIII century, Jews were already known lemons. In fact, the lemons were mentioned and to Roche, for example, in the Rambam, but the wise Talmudic era did not know them, the lemons were imported from China and India, thanks to the Arab conquests spread to the West, the Middle East, appeared in the Mediterranean basin, have been used Jews and alahicheskoy appeared in the literature. Spin lemons on Shabbat Rambam discusses student - Rabbeinu ashes - in his "commentary" on the treatise "Shabbat", and it prohibits squeezing lemons, and Roche says that it is permissible to squeeze lemons on Shabbat. Why? Roche responds: "Because, in principle, lemons squeezed, not for the drink, but for the sake of food." He points out that the main use of lemon juice - to season, for example, salad or fish: so used lemon in the days of Rocha. (At first, he lived in Germany, and later was forced to flee from persecution in Spain. Citric he did, probably in Spain.) In his time, no drinks made from lemons. Incidentally, the Italian representative of the school Tosafot - Rabbi Yeshayahu di Trani ( "Tosafot Reed") - do not agree with Roche.

"Beit Yosef" concludes: "This means that if accepted squeeze [fruits] to prepare a beverage, it is impossible [to squeeze it on the Sabbath] as mulberry and pomegranate." It turns out that "mulberry and pomegranate" - this is a whole category of fruits and sages have banned not only the concrete results that were with them, but also many others - speaking of "mulberry and pomegranate" they formulated the rule. This raises a lot of questions of principle, because unlike bans the Torah itself ( "de orayta"), where the rule is applied in every region, in every generation, respectively fact, a ban on "de rabanan" prohibited specifically that the ban, ie, .e. "Gzera" (prohibition of Zion) does not automatically extend to the larger number of cases, when you change reality.

"Beit Yosef" adds an important detail: "Even though most people do not squeeze the fruit beverage in the world, but we know that in some place it is squeezed for fluid - will not be allowed to squeeze the fruit on Shabbat." It turns out that for the sake of Shabbat, a person must possess a certain erudition - to know what is going on in the world, to take into account where it is squeezed. A particularly hard life rabbis: if someone asks a question, whether it is possible to squeeze out one or another piece of fruit on the Sabbath, the rabbi immediately to give an answer, or at least know where it can be verified.

And now the "Beit Yosef" leads his proof from the Talmud (the story of the bar Menas), and "Magen Avraham" disagrees with the position of "Beit Yosef", considering the above proof insufficient as it only matches the opinion of Rabbi Eliezer, but contrary to the wise. "Beit Yosef" (Rabbi Yosef Karo) lived in the XVI century in the Ottoman Empire - Thessaloniki (Greece). He later moved to Eretz Yisrael in the city of Safed. Nevertheless, he knew what was happening in Egypt in his time, so he wrote: "It is strange that Egypt decided to squeeze the lemon into the water with saharom5 and drink for pleasure, and did it on the Sabbath, and we have not seen anyone -That protested against this. " One suspects the usual Egypt-ing of the Jews of the time of ignorance, but what looked rabbis? Why do not they banned? Why not protest? He continues: "And we have not seen even doubt it!" Those. in Egypt all were convinced that squeezing lemons into the water with the sugar permitted on Shabbat. However, the previously mentioned we have the testimony of Rocha, in the place where he lived, squeezed lemon juice for a meal only. So why squeezing is not forbidden to drink? This is all the more strange that Rabbeinu ashes (he was a disciple of Maimonides lived in Egypt, but it is much earlier than the "Beit Yosef") explicitly states that the squeeze lemons prohibited, because they are no different from mulberry and pomegranate (Vol. e. it includes lemons into this category). The fact that the "Beit Yosef" written about otstutstvii protesters and prohibiting only because he did not know of the existence of comments Rabbeinu Perahu - his work was later found. Why in Egypt squeezed lemons on Shabbat? "Beit Yosef" is looking for an explanation that would give us the opportunity to understand the Egyptian custom to squeeze the lemon juice to drink. That's the first option proposed by him: "Perhaps it is prohibited only when the drink is fruit juice, not mixed with other drinks." Perhaps, mulberry and pomegranate prohibited squeeze on Shabbat, because it is done only in order to drink squeezed liquid, but if the fruit is squeezed for the purpose of adding the juice to something else, even if not to the food - like, probably, is not prohibited. Lemon does not squeeze the purpose of drinking nerazbav leny-juice, because the it is too acidic, and it means that lemon juice is not a full drink and Flavored Water. And in this case there is no difference in the water or adding it to food. Vyzhi-May liquid is lemon juice is fruit because its not drink by itself. Such an explanation does not match said Rocha, but we can assume that it just does not take into account the reality: Roche says that lemon juice is a food, but perhaps he would have agreed that it is permissible to squeeze and that adds the taste of the drink, but not used as a full drink itself.